Transcript: A to BE Episode 12

Mimi Kwa (00:03):
People say life is a journey, not a destination, but how do you know you are on the right path?
Jo Stanley (00:10):
If only we could see the signs when they appear.
Mimi Kwa (00:13):
Well, I’m Mimi Kwa.
Jo Stanley (00:14):
And I’m Jo Stanley.
Mimi Kwa (00:15):
And on A to BE, we speak to fascinating people about how they navigated their way to be here now, having profound impact on the world.
Jo Stanley (00:25):
We hope our conversations will help you reflect on everything you’ve been through to get here, the triumphs, challenges and bumps along the road.
Mimi Kwa (00:35):
And if you haven’t already, find your own map to what matters.
Diana Nguyen (00:41):
Now, I can really say that three years on, and I still feel like an infant in this learning of Diana. I feel I’ve had a rebirth, to be honest. I feel so young, that’s I think that’s why I’m still bouncy in life. Because I’m experiencing life again.
Mimi Kwa (00:59):
Jo, I think there’s often an enigma surrounding comedians. They make a living making other people happy. But what is really going on behind that performance, I really wonder?
Jo Stanley (01:11):
Well, let’s answer that question through the lens of this episode’s guest. Diana Nguyen is an incredibly joyous and infectious comic talent who also has the most beautiful depth to her.
Mimi Kwa (01:24):
Yeah, she really does. She’s one of those people that I’ve been drawn to in everything that I’ve seen her do on stage and online. But it wasn’t until we sat down and explored the moments that have made her this very unique person, that I knew about the very traumatic experiences that she’s overcome to be such a glorious, sunny performer who brings so much light.
Jo Stanley (01:46):
Oh, she does. I’m so inspired by her. Because she is someone who so purposefully leans into her darker experiences, learns from them, accepts herself. She really is determined to live fully and freely. I just love her. Please enjoy comedian, Diana Nguyen.
(02:07):
Diana, it’s so lovely to have you on A to BE, because we just think you are so joyous. And I know you’ve told me you’re living your purpose. You actually have articulated that, and you’re very young to know this already. How old are you?
Diana Nguyen (02:24):
I’m sweet 38.
Jo Stanley (02:26):
Right. You’re a baby
Mimi Kwa (02:28):
A baby.
Jo Stanley (02:29):
I feel that’s so young to know that you’re living your purpose.
Diana Nguyen (02:32):
Yeah. I think when you know then you strive and you do it every day, and that’s simply joy.
Jo Stanley (02:38):
Wow.
Diana Nguyen (02:39):
I can’t live without it, and creativity is part of my joy. And people are part of my joy. And so I surround myself every single day with those people, those activities, which is dancing and making people laugh.
Jo Stanley (02:53):
So what is your purpose? Let’s articulate that.
Diana Nguyen (02:55):
Being a joy-fool. So I’m trying to spread this out to the world, which is it’s okay to fail because in the fail you find joy. And so I fail in everything, whether it be love, family, friends, my career.
Jo Stanley (03:07):
That’s great goal setting. It is true. You should be a public speaker on goal setting. What can I fail at today? Actually, do you know, as a side, one of my absolute heroes, and one of my favorite stories is from Sarah Blakely, who was the founder of Spanx.
Diana Nguyen (03:27):
Yes.
Jo Stanley (03:28):
And she says that one of the keys to her success was, growing up her dad every night at the dinner table would say, what did you fail at today?
(03:37):
Don’t you love that?
Mimi Kwa (03:38):
Yeah.
Diana Nguyen (03:39):
That’s juicy.
Mimi Kwa (03:39):
Yeah.
Diana Nguyen (03:40):
Then the conversations that come out aren’t just like, oh, it was a good day.
Jo Stanley (03:43):
No. But also the expectation is not to always succeed.
Diana Nguyen (03:45):
That’s it.
Jo Stanley (03:46):
Yeah. So what have you failed at?
Diana Nguyen (03:49):
Oh, God. Well, I think the first testament of my failure was my mother. I didn’t fulfill what she expected me to be.
Mimi Kwa (03:57):
So you failed in her eyes?
Diana Nguyen (03:58):
Yeah. That was really early in life as well.
Mimi Kwa (04:01):
What did she expect you to be?
Diana Nguyen (04:04):
It was this whole world of my weight, being the eldest daughter, and I had to be responsible for my two younger sisters, because my dad left when we were quite young. And I had to step up as a child and take on these responsibilities. Not being a doctor and working in…
Mimi Kwa (04:19):
That’s always a big one.
Diana Nguyen (04:20):
It is.
Mimi Kwa (04:20):
Or a lawyer.
Diana Nguyen (04:23):
Or a lawyer. And I understand why, because she came here by boat with nothing. And so all she wanted was success. And so the arts is not success. It’s what makes you feel, that does not bring money. But my mother was the one who brought the arts into my life, the karaoke in our house, piano lessons lessons at three-years-old, ballet classes.
(04:43):
But then when year 10 came, she went, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, we’re done. Now let’s go back to the science and the maths. So I always felt I was failing with her. I felt I could never get anything right. And that was the massive disruption in our relationship for a good 20 years.
Mimi Kwa (05:01):
You said that you understood the way that she was because she’d come over on a “boat.” Well, actually not inverted commas, because it was a boat.
Diana Nguyen (05:12):
It was a yacht.
Jo Stanley (05:16):
What’s the inverted commas of an actual boat?
Mimi Kwa (05:22):
A cruise ship?
(05:27):
It’s just a light in our vernacular. Anyway, as you know. So you said that you understood, but did you really as a little girl understand? Or is it later in life that you’ve looked back and gone, ahh, now I really understand why she was so hard on me?
Diana Nguyen (05:45):
Only when I started doing performances and creating art did I start to write these moments I had with my mother, and then made them into theatre pieces. And then I realized in reflection, and that’s why I love the art so much, because we reflect and sit there and watch, that while my mother sacrificed her life to come to a country so that I could do better and have the education that she never got to fulfill and be an individual. However, that clashed with the Vietnamese culture, which is family, family, family, family. But being Australian, we can do whatever we want. We can have the jobs we want. We can fall in love with anyone we want.
(06:20):
And I remember the key moment I went, wow, my mom is an amazing human being, was when we’re in Vietnam, in my grandmother’s kitchen at 2:00 AM, we were packing our suitcases to go back to Australia. And that’s trauma itself, trying to tell your mom, mom it’s only 20 kilos we can take back to Australia.
Mimi Kwa (06:38):
I thought you were going to say that’s trauma. We’re reliving the journey that she made.
Diana Nguyen (06:45):
No, I talk about it in my show. My mother made me pack 58 kilos over the limit. Jetstar.
(06:51):
Oh, yeah. I’ve talked about this.
Jo Stanley (06:53):
With what?
Mimi Kwa (06:55):
Tell us.
Diana Nguyen (06:55):
A quilt that she had to bring back. Woks, butcher knives, books.
Mimi Kwa (06:59):
Plural?
Diana Nguyen (07:01):
10 books. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve talked about it in my show called Naked. And also in Chasing Keanu. My mother had packed so much and I had to swallow it, because it wasn’t worth fighting her. That when we got to the airport, the woman at the check-in was, you have to pay eight-
Mimi Kwa (07:17):
$13 million.
Diana Nguyen (07:18):
$13 US per kilo over. It was 58 kilos.
Mimi Kwa (07:22):
And that’s where your maths kicked in?
Diana Nguyen (07:24):
No, that’s where my mother’s trauma kicked in. And she had a fight with Jetstar in the airport, where they were going to confiscate our passports and keep us in Saigon. However, an angel woman from the plane, a Jetstar attendant came up and said to my mom, are you okay? And my mom says, I’m okay. And somehow we all went onto this plane with 58 kilos over a luggage limit. And everyone witnessed it.
Mimi Kwa (07:53):
That worked.
Diana Nguyen (07:54):
Yeah, no, that worked. Thank God my mother went so aggressive with this woman and stood her ground. But for three days I could not talk after that. Because I’d just absorbed my mother’s fury.
Jo Stanley (08:07):
When you’re in that, because I understand it’s triggering to have… It brings up all of the times you’ve had fights with your mother for your entire life. So what space do you go into when you cannot talk and when you’re absorbing that kind of fury?
Diana Nguyen (08:22):
Oh, I think for me, and my mom always says this, she says to me, I care more about what people think about us. My mother always said that I don’t protect the family first, and I understand why now, but in that moment I just went, okay, what, are people looking? What are people doing? Oh my God, Mum, this is so embarrassing. Mum, what are you doing?
(08:42):
And so I just go into fight and flight mode. It’s, Mum, how do we fix this situation? And so I was already on how do we fix this? And it was not my problem, it’s her problem. But yeah, you go into fight and flight. And you just numb it and just try to weigh it out.
Mimi Kwa (08:55):
I’m just going to interject with a very small bonding moment here, and that is that my dad used to like travel with his things in garbage bags, and the flight attendants at the check-in would pull him up on it and he would explain to them how the garbage bags were much more robust than some people’s suitcases. And then he would grab some stranger’s suitcase and say, look at it.
Diana Nguyen (09:20):
To make a point.
Mimi Kwa (09:20):
To make a point. And my brothers and I would just be wanting to crawl under a rock. So I get it to an extent.
Diana Nguyen (09:29):
You can’t fight them. They’re right.
Jo Stanley (09:32):
Parental relationships have such impact on the way we live as adults. What has that done for you as a person?
Diana Nguyen (09:39):
I won an award in 2021, which is the Asian Australian Award, and it was the same year that Grace Tame won the Australian of the Year award. So I call myself the Grace Tame but the Asian version.
Mimi Kwa (09:48):
Okay. Congratulations.
Diana Nguyen (09:51):
Oh, thank you.
Mimi Kwa (09:52):
That’s amazing.
Diana Nguyen (09:53):
It was a real great honor, because three weeks before that I was ready to quit, because it was 2021 COVID again. And I just felt, oh, why am I investing something that does not pay me? It doesn’t feed me what everyone else is getting fed.
Mimi Kwa (10:09):
As in being in the entertainment industry?
Diana Nguyen (10:12):
Just to be an adult.
Mimi Kwa (10:13):
Oh, just to be an adult.
Diana Nguyen (10:14):
Yeah. I just want to buy things and don’t have to worry. I lost $11,000 in the comedy festival in 2020. And I was, how much more money do I need to lose in an art form that I’d been doing for 16 years? How many more times do I have to lose money?
Mimi Kwa (10:29):
Yeah.
Diana Nguyen (10:30):
But I’ve also realized that I’m not a normal artist, I’m also an entrepreneur. So I take risks, I fail. I love people who fail. And I love people who climb up again and keep going. But I’ve forgotten your question already.
Jo Stanley (10:42):
I’ve forgotten it too.
(10:44):
When we went into the 2021 award…
Diana Nguyen (10:47):
Yes… Asian Australian Award.
Jo Stanley (10:49):
Impact of your mother on the person you are.
Diana Nguyen (10:51):
That’s right. In my speech, I said, thanks Mum for never believing in me, so that I could be here to show you I could.
Jo Stanley (10:58):
Yeah. That’s pretty powerful.
Diana Nguyen (11:00):
Yeah.
Mimi Kwa (11:00):
And she’s your biggest fan now, isn’t she?
Diana Nguyen (11:02):
She is. I remember doing Miss Saigon in 2008. It was Amateur Theatre, and the day after she was, oh, if you need an actor, I can perform too.
Jo Stanley (11:12):
Now she wants to do a double act.
Diana Nguyen (11:20):
Yeah, yeah. And when I went to MC events, and I’m performing and dancing as a character, my mum would get up on stage and dance and not care. Because she sees me doing it. And so I know that she’s watching and I know it’s impacting her. Because she’s got this beautiful freedom now, all her three daughters have grown up, doing their thing. And all she needs to do is take care of herself.
Jo Stanley (11:41):
So what are you giving her? You’re giving her so much.
Diana Nguyen (11:44):
What I’m not giving her is a grandchild.
Jo Stanley (11:46):
Oh, wow.
Diana Nguyen (11:47):
It’s constant.
Jo Stanley (11:48):
Oh love.
Diana Nguyen (11:48):
It’s constant, constant. But my mom-
Mimi Kwa (11:53):
Constant in that Asian way that she’s-
Diana Nguyen (11:55):
So what’s next?
Jo Stanley (11:56):
Yes.
Diana Nguyen (11:56):
Yeah. I think also, I remember we did an SBS radio interview and the presenter said, are you proud of Diana? My mom said, I am, because I used to resist her and fight her on her career. But now I understand that she’s allowing people to know our story. And she had never articulated this to me ever. But it was a live SBS Radio interview, and she just opened it all up. I know she’s proud of what I do.
Jo Stanley (12:27):
That’s pretty beautiful.
Diana Nguyen (12:28):
It is.
Jo Stanley (12:29):
My mom, the one time she was on radio, on my Breakfast radio show, the only time, she said-
Mimi Kwa (12:37):
You nicked that in the bud.
Jo Stanley (12:39):
This is when I was on Fox FM. She said, I’ve got one more thing to say, Jo, why couldn’t you get a job on the ABC? And I’m- like, Okay that’s-
Mimi Kwa (12:53):
That was my mum.
Jo Stanley (12:54):
Once again, it’s that thing of you just want your parents to be proud of you. And when you have that fear that they’re not, you go, am I rejected from the family? It really goes to the core of your sense of survival.
Diana Nguyen (13:09):
Yes, it does.
Jo Stanley (13:09):
Because as a tribe, we want to be accepted.
Mimi Kwa (13:13):
We want to belong.
Jo Stanley (13:15):
Yeah. But you’re showing her and now she’s proud of you.
Diana Nguyen (13:17):
Yeah. So I’m glad that I can do what I love and also show next generations that they can do what they love as well.
Mimi Kwa (13:25):
So take us back a bit then to your childhood with your mom and you’re the eldest sibling.
Diana Nguyen (13:30):
Yes.
Mimi Kwa (13:31):
What was life like? Apart from the rigors of piano and all of the things that your mom was getting you to do, what was life like? Where did you live? Where did you grow up?
Diana Nguyen (13:44):
So I grew up in a small town called Springvale, very prominent of Vietnamese refugees, because the hostel was there. My two parents met there, fell in love. However, I try to articulate it without making it a big deal, because I now understand what happened in our family, which was, it was a domestic violent home. Two refugee kids who had never processed war would face each other off. And so our house was living in eggshells.
(14:11):
And I remember in 1993 we were put in a women’s refuge. The police put us in a family women’s refuge, and I was eight years old. And across the road from our house was a ballet school. And my mom thought, you know what? I need to get my daughter somewhere safe. So she enrolled me into these ballet classes. And so that’s where the arts can happen. In crisis my mother knew how to put me into something that would balance me out and be okay. So yeah, that was the-
Mimi Kwa (14:39):
And a distraction from what was going on.
Diana Nguyen (14:41):
That’s it.
Mimi Kwa (14:41):
In your day-to-day life.
Diana Nguyen (14:43):
And I didn’t know that. That was such a gift that my mother gave me. For her to go, oh, I’m going to give something to my daughter and buy her ballet shoes that I can’t afford. But I’m going to put her in these classes.
(14:54):
And my parents eventually divorced. But then as I said before, I became the man of the family. I had to take care of my two younger sisters. The youngest was eight years younger, and I became her mother, not her sister anymore. And that’s really affected our relationship as adults. And I became a caregiver. When my mother had depression, I had to make sure my sisters were safe. I had to walk them to school, cook them dinner. I had to be an adult really, really early. And so school was my escape. Going to school for those six, seven hours kept me safe. And then when we went home, I was an adult again.
Mimi Kwa (15:32):
Was there someone at school, a teacher or a friend or multiple people who were your real supports through that time?
Diana Nguyen (15:40):
Yeah. I’m still friends with the girls from grade four, so that’s 30 years of friendship there. But I always wanted to be a teacher, because I had these amazing teachers who heard me.
(15:52):
A guy was singing in the school choir and the teacher would turn around and go, I think you should join the choir. And then I did. And these teachers nurtured me to be where I am. And so in my heart, I always knew I wanted to be a teacher. However, being a performer outgrew that. My drama teacher from high school, he said, you know what? Finish your arts degree. Go do the acting at nighttime, and if that fails, go and do a degree at Monash. And I never did do my degree at Monash.
(16:19):
Yeah. So these educated teachers just wrapped me up and kept me so safe. And eventually, of course, I became a school leader of my school. I wanted to serve my school. I wanted to serve the people who took care of me. I’m so grateful that I had school to protect me.
Jo Stanley (16:35):
Do you have now that inclination in you to care for people?
Diana Nguyen (16:39):
Oh, yes. I think it’s just innate in me. I just care. I just want people to grow. For me, I need things to evolve and grow and see them bloom. And when I see that in other human beings, it’s not even work. It’s just part of my nature.
Mimi Kwa (16:55):
But the joy that you exude and your energy is just so contagious and so positive and beautiful with the content that you create and just you as a person, just stepping into the room today. And even though we’re talking about some very difficult things in your past, have you found that joy that you’re really focused on has been healing? That’s probably an obvious question, isn’t it?
Diana Nguyen (17:20):
It is, because I have had depression for a very long time. I’ve seen a psychologist for 11 years. And there’s that word, imposter syndrome, when people go, oh my God, you’re so happy and joyful. But there was also something tapping inside of me going, that’s something not right. It’s not a full joy.
(17:36):
And 2020 was the big year for everyone, when COVID happened, where my industry was shut down, I could not move. I couldn’t do anything. And I really had to evaluate my joy. I just had to do an assessment on what is this joy thing that you’re doing? And why do sometimes every three months of the year you feel shit? Is it a facade? Are you just showing up because you’re making money from it? Where does it come from?
(18:07):
And in 2020, I had to sit down and go, ugh, Diana, you have so many wounds that you’ve covered up, that you need to dig really deep. And I’m so grateful that the lockdown in 2020 and 2021 did that for me. Because I would not have had another chance to do that in my life.
Jo Stanley (18:26):
What was the inquiry process that you went through in that time?
Diana Nguyen (18:31):
Yes. So I realized that I sit with shame very easily.
Jo Stanley (18:35):
That was the word that came up for me when you were talking about the airport.
Diana Nguyen (18:37):
Yes.
Jo Stanley (18:38):
With your mum. I’m like, that’s shame.
Diana Nguyen (18:42):
Yeah. Thinking about what other people think. Yeah. So I was sexually abused as a child. And I loved the arts and I carried the arts to not think about it. Community was very important to me. So it was always on the side, and I never dealt into it. And I’m completely fine now. And I don’t know if you’ll put this on this pod, but…
Jo Stanley (19:04):
With your permission, we will.
Diana Nguyen (19:05):
Yeah.
Mimi Kwa (19:07):
Disclaimer, you don’t have to say that you’re completely fine now, because I know that feeling, where I say to everyone, I’m fine, but there’s always stuff going on. You put it so beautifully, that feeling inside, just tapping at you saying, you’re not experiencing full wholehearted joy.
Diana Nguyen (19:26):
Yeah. It’s something I know. It’s my life… And when I say I’m fine, I say it that I’ve got tools to use when I’m not fine. And so I think for me… That’s what I’m trying to articulate, is I’m fine because I’ve got so many tools in me, got my oils.
Jo Stanley (19:44):
You did have a little process with your oils before we started, which I was like, I want me some other I that.
Diana Nguyen (19:55):
I can get you some of that, natural oils. But yeah, so seeing a psychologist for 11 years. Something wasn’t right. So I’d go into depression. And then when I turned 30 and I was not in a relationship, I decided I was going to gift myself with something. So I went to the police and made a historical report, and for three hours I sat with them as a gift to myself as a thirty-year-old, I wanted to shift something. And that was in 2011.
(20:20):
And then I fell in love with someone, and it got swept off again. And then that was shelved. And I wasn’t ready to go forward to the courts and stuff. It’s not for everyone. It’s not for everyone to go to the courts. So I just swept it back underneath the blankets again.
(20:39):
And then just had this whirlwind up and down emotions, chaotic, having fights with my family, trying to figure out who I was. But with joy, it was there. And my arts was there. But then also this weird niggling things, like something’s not right. And so March 2020 lockdown happened. I lost $11,000 that was going to be saved up for freezing my eggs. And then I remember watching this video on Facebook. It was a sponsored ad that came up and it said, it just spoke straight to me, because it was, how do you own your power? It feels like a Tony Robbins video, but it wasn’t.
Jo Stanley (21:13):
Which PS I love Tony Robbins. Got no issue with that at all.
Mimi Kwa (21:16):
No issues at all.
Diana Nguyen (21:20):
But it was this woman named Pauline Nguyen, who’s a spiritual coach. And it spoke straight to me. And then I started to enroll to her Roundtable. And then all of a sudden I was in a three-month spiritual accelerator program. And it’s just cut away the bullshit that I have allowed into my life constantly, which is toxic people, allowing people to encroach in my orbit. Also reshaping the victim story for me.
(21:52):
I know it happened, but why am I letting the shame eat me up more than what happened? And so that was a real configuration. A real configuration. And once I did that, then the self-love happened. And yeah, now I can really say that. Three years on and I still feel like an infant in this learning of Diana. I feel I’ve had a rebirth, to be honest. I feel so young. I think that’s why I’m still bouncy in life because I’m experiencing life again.
Mimi Kwa (22:23):
It’s so beautiful.
Jo Stanley (22:25):
It’s so beautiful.
Diana Nguyen (22:25):
I know.
Jo Stanley (22:25):
It’s so beautiful.
Diana Nguyen (22:33):
And then I fell in love last year with a man who really loved me. And I felt for the first time, a man really loved me and shown me what love is and that I deserve love. And unfortunately, that relationship hasn’t continued. But now I’m, fuck, I’ve got to honor this. This is me. This is Diana. I can’t live in the shame and let that story eat me anymore. I’ve got to live now, present, do what I do, fail, joy, laugh, dance, and have deep conversations.
(23:01):
And when you asked me to come on here, I was, oh, you inspire me to keep doing and articulating, talking, because we need our voices to be heard.
Jo Stanley (23:13):
Yeah. I just need to hold hands.
Mimi Kwa (23:18):
It’s the best. It’s the best. It’s so wonderful. Just the real Diana, the authenticity.
Diana Nguyen (23:24):
I know.
Mimi Kwa (23:28):
I don’t know, the liberation of just being able to be who you are.
Diana Nguyen (23:31):
Yeah.
Mimi Kwa (23:32):
Wow.
Diana Nguyen (23:35):
And about 2000 people know the story, because I talked about it in my show Chasing Keanu Reeves. I just stood on stage and said, this is my story, and I failed. And part of the healing in 2020, was I also went to see a sex therapist. And I fell in love with my body and my flaps.
Jo Stanley (23:55):
I love my flaps too.
Diana Nguyen (23:57):
I love my flaps. I acknowledge her now.
Jo Stanley (24:02):
I’ve got a question for you around the Joy-fool. You’ve created this brand, the Joy-fool, and I don’t mean brand as in, it’s inauthentic, it really is you, right?
Diana Nguyen (24:14):
Yes.
Jo Stanley (24:14):
But you have this beautiful dancing that you do, which, you take it into a corporate space. And I know that people go, what’s she doing? She’s dancing. And then you get everyone up and everyone joins you, right?
Diana Nguyen (24:24):
That’s it.
Jo Stanley (24:25):
There’s something around how important it’s to move your body, to move trauma through it. And I wonder, was the dancing a precursor to you then being able to do the work to find the freedom from the shame?
Diana Nguyen (24:40):
Yeah. I think that ballet class that my mum enrolled me in was the first medicine I needed to get me through to where I am just moving my body. And when music came out, I just went, that’s just natural. And so now when I move my body, I just know that every cell in my circulation is active and I’m not sitting in my shit.
Jo Stanley (25:07):
Well, it’s literally you’re regulating, self-regulating your vagus nerve, right?
Diana Nguyen (25:12):
That’s it.
Jo Stanley (25:12):
So that’s really important, the science of it. But it actually relates to, I suppose, you are then owning your body and your space, how you wish.
Diana Nguyen (25:21):
Yeah. I’m putting limbs out everywhere and not giving a crap.
Jo Stanley (25:23):
Yeah, you are.
Diana Nguyen (25:24):
I am.
Jo Stanley (25:26):
You’re a fantastic dancer.
Diana Nguyen (25:27):
I am. But I can also be a shit dancer too.
Mimi Kwa (25:34):
Just think the idea of just moving that trauma through your body, out of your body, releasing it, there’s just something so profound in that, don’t you think knowing what you know and having experienced what you’ve experienced, and having come this far, do you just have this feeling that, oh my gosh, everyone should just be dancing?
Diana Nguyen (25:54):
Well, that’s what I did two weeks ago. I did a 250 person conference. Every interval I got everyone dancing, and we’d been talking about refugees and settlement and how shit it is. But I said, no, so we can sit in this place of, ugh, the world is crap, or we take this information and now let’s move our bodies so it processes through our bodies, so that we can now absorb new information.
(26:18):
And so I’ve really used as a process to get corporates, people who are wearing suits or people who do dance privately just to do in front of other people, because instantly always, guaranteed, there’s always a little giggle that comes out of their souls. And that makes me feel happy, that they felt that. And if people can just feel that little, oh, oh my goodness, oh, all these sounds come out when you do something that’s so uncomfortable, but just so innate in you.
Mimi Kwa (26:46):
Yeah. Because it’s confronting that self consciousness that we have. And going back to the airport story with you, with your mom, you were so self-conscious of what was going on, and dancing is just a complete affront to that. You are confronting your demons essentially through dance.
Diana Nguyen (27:07):
Maybe I should have danced at the airport that day.
Mimi Kwa (27:11):
Well, if you’d known then.
Diana Nguyen (27:12):
Some mob dancing.
Mimi Kwa (27:17):
Meantime, your mum’s sneaking through with the case.
Diana Nguyen (27:19):
That’s right.
Jo Stanley (27:19):
Good decoy.
Diana Nguyen (27:19):
Yes.
Jo Stanley (27:27):
I know you also work at the Royal Children’s Hospital. You’re a part of their… What’s it called?
Diana Nguyen (27:32):
I’m a clown doctor.
Jo Stanley (27:32):
You’re a clown doctor.
Diana Nguyen (27:33):
For the Human Foundation.
Mimi Kwa (27:34):
Oh, so you are a doctor.
Diana Nguyen (27:38):
Yes. Full circle. I tell my mom that and she’s, whatever.
Jo Stanley (27:42):
So you were in this beautiful… And I’ve had lots of experience at the Children’s Hospital with my daughter, and it is extraordinary. And the kids there, some of them are very, very sick, and you’re there for them. What has led you down that path? Because a lot of people would find that really hard.
Diana Nguyen (27:57):
Yeah, it is hard.
Jo Stanley (27:58):
Very confronting.
Diana Nguyen (27:59):
It is. So I was made redundant from my government job in 2016.
Jo Stanley (28:04):
Talk about a good fork in the road.
Diana Nguyen (28:07):
Yes.
Jo Stanley (28:07):
Being sacked really does force you to make a decision about your life.
Diana Nguyen (28:12):
And when there’s a redundancy. It’s going to take you places. So I used half of the redundancy for Edinburgh Fringe in 2017, took half that money. I still lost a lot of money. And then half of that money went to clown school for four months, full-time in Melbourne. A fantastic legendary clown teacher, John Bolton, he teaches at the VCA as well.
(28:32):
This opportunity came up. I was like, I’m redundant. Why not? So I learnt clowning. It’s physical theatre, but I learnt clowning for a month and then I got an audition. And it was the hardest audition I’ve ever done in my life. Three hours of improv, nonstop, constant. I remember going home from that audition and sleeping, because you’re constantly, oh, oh, oh.
Jo Stanley (28:55):
And you got to be so present the whole time.
Diana Nguyen (28:58):
Yep. You’ve got to be burning fires constantly. Actually, that song is on for three hours in your head.
Jo Stanley (29:08):
I’ve got it. You’re just spinning plates. And you’re juggling and you’ve got your song.
Diana Nguyen (29:15):
Yeah. They said, we want you. And since 2017, I’ve been Dr. Sunny at the Royal Children’s and Monash Children’s Hospital. And for me, I think the joy transformed into, Diana, you can perform in a 1000 people, 100 people audiences, but my audience is a child, and that child still gives me the same joy I get.
(29:37):
And so that does make me go, oh yeah, sure, fame’s great. But my work is just that feeling that I can make someone’s day a little different. Those wards, you’ve been in those wards, they’re not great.
Jo Stanley (29:51):
Awful, yeah.
Diana Nguyen (29:52):
And also the parents also need a release as well. In the emergency section this week the child was fine, but once the mother saw the child laughing at us, she started to cry. Because that was the key for her. And I’m so grateful and more people need to support the BeHUMAN Foundation.org.
Jo Stanley (30:10):
They do. We’ll put that in our notes.
Diana Nguyen (30:14):
Thank you.
Jo Stanley (30:17):
Absolutely. Yeah. So but why children? Why are you drawn to children?
Diana Nguyen (30:19):
I love children. I was meant to be a mother very early in life, but thankfully I didn’t meet the right men early in my life because of the chaos. I was attracting very… Not toxic, men who weren’t on my level. And I’ve always felt most of the men I’ve dated I’ve had to grow them.
Jo Stanley (30:38):
Oh my God, I think I feel most women would say that.
Diana Nguyen (30:42):
It’s ill. Don’t do that. Find someone who’s on the same level as you and grow together. But if they grow fast, then go with them.
Mimi Kwa (30:50):
Or… I’m just going to throw another one in there. Or just accept that you’re on different levels and growing at different paces, and just be okay with that. If you can be. But if you can’t be, then you’ve got to keep looking for somebody who matches your perspective.
Diana Nguyen (31:07):
I’m pretty cutthroat on my journey.
Jo Stanley (31:11):
Well, I do want to ask about that, because you were so in love with this beautiful boy. Where did you live? You were in Byron Bay.
Diana Nguyen (31:21):
I met him in Byron Bay, but he moved back to Melbourne.
Jo Stanley (31:23):
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Diana Nguyen (31:26):
My show this year I made a funny joke. When you’re ready, just leave the sperm in there. That’s what my mum says. She says, Diana, if he’s the one, don’t worry about getting married, just sit on top of him and when he’s about to come, just let it shoot up. And then just leave the sperm in there’s. It sounds easy.
(31:46):
Save money on IVF. That’s what my mum’s trying to say. It’s for business. But yeah, it didn’t work out. And this is very fresh. It only happened four months ago. But I walked the Camino to process it. I always imagined I would have three daughters. In my yearbook 2002, I wrote, in 10 years time, Diana will have 10 children. I know. Yeah. I’ve got three-
Jo Stanley (32:10):
Maybe that’s a good fail.
Diana Nguyen (32:13):
I’m very grateful that I have not had any children.
Jo Stanley (32:18):
But there is this, obviously, I feel there’s a grief that you haven’t yet had, that…
Diana Nguyen (32:24):
Yeah.
Jo Stanley (32:24):
The baby that you so want.
Diana Nguyen (32:26):
Yeah. Well, it’s an interesting… When the breakup happened, I agreed for five, six weeks in Melbourne, three days after the breakup, while lying in bed, I must have hyperventilated. So I do this thing called holotropic breath work in part of my process to regulate my breathing, have visions, but not take ayahuasca drugs.
(32:48):
I really am all about the mind and spirituality. And I somehow must’ve hyperventilated so hard that I felt like I was giving birth to something. This is going to sound kook. So kook.
Jo Stanley (32:59):
I love it. We love it.
Mimi Kwa (33:03):
This is woo-woo central. Do not worry. You’re in a safe space.
Diana Nguyen (33:07):
Yeah. So I was so distraught, I was crying. I remember I was lying in bed crying, that I had to go into my fours on my bed and I had to push something out. Something was happening in my body. And that day I decided to book my ticket to go to Madrid and walk the Camino de Santiago. That was the key to get me to get out of Australia.
(33:29):
And July 16th I walked with my backpack, with my heart in so much pain. My glutes were in so much pain by the second day. And I had to really process who Diana is, and who is Diana in society. And the expectations of Diana. Mom wanted me to have grandchildren, also being surrounded by friends who have children. But I’m also surrounded by people who don’t have children. So I was in my brain just processing all this. And I finally made a decision that I will have to freeze my eggs. I just can’t pretend anymore.
Mimi Kwa (34:09):
Which is what you had intended.
Diana Nguyen (34:10):
I had intended before COVID, yeah. And I wish I’d frozen them when they were five years younger, but that’s okay. We’ve got science now. But the main reason why I want to freeze my eggs is because I really do… And I was thinking about you when I was driving here, Jo. What you have with Daz is beautiful. And I really believe there is someone for me.
Jo Stanley (34:33):
I want to emphasize, by the way, when Mimi was saying, or you can just choose to accept that you are at a different level. It felt very real for me.
Mimi Kwa (34:47):
I don’t know many people that that’s not real for.
Diana Nguyen (34:49):
That’s true. Yeah.
Jo Stanley (34:50):
Going to be honest. But you’re right, that we have a very… We’ve been together 20 something years. We’re very lucky.
Diana Nguyen (34:58):
And being in a really healthy relationship for 18 months, and I call it healthy, because we were communicating. Just it had to end eventually. I just would like to share that with someone.
Jo Stanley (35:09):
And you deserve it.
Diana Nguyen (35:14):
I think so too.
Jo Stanley (35:15):
But you do. You deserve to be loved.
Diana Nguyen (35:15):
I do.
Jo Stanley (35:15):
And to love.
Diana Nguyen (35:18):
Yeah. And I’m still young, three years… That thing that I experienced, it’s like… Let’s not rush this. Let’s not rush love. Let’s not rush and find someone to just have a baby with. Let’s put these eggs in a freezer and just go enjoy life and live moment to moment and go on dates and catch up with friends and travel the world.
(35:40):
And I’m so grateful I got to go to Europe and be in there, because I just felt, oh, this is Diana. I just felt this is the point where I’ve worked so hard to be where I need to be, and I feel so free.
Mimi Kwa (35:53):
You are so good at facing the pain.
Diana Nguyen (35:57):
Oh god.
Mimi Kwa (35:57):
Time and time again. It’s actually awe-inspiring and incredible, because so many people just push it down, push it down. And I get that. I understand that. But you have just looked it right in the face. And very fresh, for you coming out of a relationship, talking about it already, all of that. That’s just the maturity that you’ve grown into.
Diana Nguyen (36:24):
Yeah. Well, I don’t know what other life to live. I don’t hate him for this person who didn’t give me his sperm, and promised me a life in Switzerland, but that’s okay. But I just can’t live in a life that’s blaming. Because that goes back to the shame. So it’s, okay, this happened. I’m not okay, let’s go for a walk.
Jo Stanley (36:47):
A big one.
Diana Nguyen (36:48):
Big one. And yeah, four months later, I just feel I’m really happy.
Jo Stanley (36:54):
It’s acceptance.
Diana Nguyen (36:56):
Yes.
Jo Stanley (36:56):
That’s what you reach.
Diana Nguyen (36:57):
And forgiveness. Forgiving yourself that it didn’t work out. Forgiving them for not having… It couldn’t be what it was meant to be, you hoped it to be.
Mimi Kwa (37:08):
Are you at the point now, it’s only four months on or years on from other things that have happened in your life, are you at a point with some things? Certainly not everything, a point of gratitude? You’re at a point of gratitude with your mom.
Diana Nguyen (37:24):
Oh, yeah.
Mimi Kwa (37:24):
I guess you’re grateful for lots of the failures that you’ve talked about.
Diana Nguyen (37:28):
Yes.
Mimi Kwa (37:28):
Actually you haven’t really had any failures that I can talk about-
Jo Stanley (37:32):
We’re waiting for this.
Mimi Kwa (37:34):
Embracing failures, and there have been none. It’s been awards. It’s been shows.
Jo Stanley (37:37):
Because also I would like to say that I have lost 1000s of dollars at comedy festival shows, right? Everyone does.
Diana Nguyen (37:43):
Yes.
Jo Stanley (37:44):
But you can’t call that a failure though.
Diana Nguyen (37:45):
No.
Jo Stanley (37:45):
That’s standard.
Diana Nguyen (37:46):
Well I’m still here.
Jo Stanley (37:46):
Yeah. And you’re still doing it. Still doing it.
Diana Nguyen (37:46):
Yeah.
Jo Stanley (37:51):
But to Mimi’s point, what things are you grateful for that have contributed to the person you are now?
Diana Nguyen (37:59):
What am I grateful for? I’m grateful that I am unique and I get to do whatever the fuck I want.
Mimi Kwa (38:06):
Oh, I love that.
Jo Stanley (38:07):
Great. That gave me chills.
Diana Nguyen (38:08):
Yeah. That’s owning me and me only. And I can do whatever. I can just do whatever. And people can eat popcorn and watch it if they want to. But yeah, my week’s never the same. And I feel that’s my creative entrepreneur. I don’t have a 9:00 to 5:00 job, so I can move, flow, have a break on that Wednesday. Or go for a trip for seven weeks and still be able to come back and not go, I’m poor. But, yeah, I’m just grateful.
Mimi Kwa (38:37):
You’re living in abundance.
Diana Nguyen (38:38):
I am.
Jo Stanley (38:39):
Yeah.
Diana Nguyen (38:40):
And I want to share that with other people. Because I believe in the pay it forward, whatever you take, you’ve got to give it back tenfold. And I feel that so much in me.
Jo Stanley (38:54):
Your gift is communicating, right?
Diana Nguyen (38:55):
Yeah.
Jo Stanley (38:56):
Through many different ways, whether it’s your body, whether it’s comedy, whether it’s writing. You wrote a play for MTC, so you are multi-talented as far as how you communicate. That is your gift. And by sharing your story, other people will be able to go, I don’t need to be in my shame anymore.
Diana Nguyen (39:16):
Yeah. And I don’t want anyone to feel the shame for that long that I did. For me, how do we change a whole era of women that…
Mimi Kwa (39:28):
How do we? Can you just write that out for us? Because I think this is –
Diana Nguyen (39:36):
I don’t know if we can change the world, but we can change to who we speak to.
Jo Stanley (39:40):
I think you’re doing it though. The how is literally what you’re doing, is by talking, isn’t that…
Diana Nguyen (39:45):
It is.
Jo Stanley (39:45):
But you’re doing it too, Mimi.
Mimi Kwa (39:45):
And you’re doing it too. But isn’t it, we change ourselves in order to change the world. It’s kind of that-
Diana Nguyen (39:56):
You have to, yeah.
Mimi Kwa (39:56):
Leading by example, either consciously or unconsciously. But when you’re doing it for good and you’re just wanting to be of service and you’re talking about giving tenfold back for everything that you take, that is life-changing not only for you, but everybody that you touch.
Diana Nguyen (40:13):
Well, if I give an example of my show this year going all in, so half my audience are usually Vietnamese or Asians who come, who’ve never seen comedy, who’ve never really gone outside the door. And that excites me, that you can bring people who’ve never seen art, live art, and sit in the audience.
(40:30):
But when I went to the sex section of my show, you could feel half the room go, whoa. But I realized, no, but we need to be sex positive. We want to change. Let’s talk about our bodies and what it does. And so I know for me that’s empowering to speak about sex in a funny way, because for most Asian Australians who do find their partners, usually their first or second partner.
(40:58):
And so I always go, have you explored anything else in your… And so I’m very curious about that. And so I’m hoping that I give them some fire to go back into their bedrooms. So for me, that show was, I’m here to tease you, let’s play.
Jo Stanley (41:16):
I love it.
Mimi Kwa (41:16):
So I wonder whether it’s both members of the couple have actually attended the show or just one of them. And then they go home,
Jo Stanley (41:29):
They’re like, what’s happened? You’re going to the comedy festival again! Hey, so this is a good segue.
(41:32):
Yes.
(41:33):
We bring a little feature in the show each week, which is an origin story of a well-known thing. And sometimes we reveal it, it’s a surprise. But in this instance, I will tell you it’s the origin of the joke, right? Because I have here the world’s oldest recorded joke.
Diana Nguyen (41:52):
Whoa.
Jo Stanley (41:53):
Look at Mimi, are you all right?
(41:58):
How?
(41:58):
Historians were able to trace it back. They found it on a toilet wall. I don’t know. Historians have been able to trace this back to 1900 BC, right? The world’s oldest joke, which it originated somewhere in Southern Iraq, they say, okay.
(42:17):
It translates as, something which has never occurred since time immemorial, I need a waka, waka waka. It’s like, I say, I say, I say, mm, da, da, mm, da. Something, which has never occurred since time immemorial, a young woman did not fart in her husband’s lap, which is obviously, they’re being sarcastic.
Diana Nguyen (42:37):
Yes.
Jo Stanley (42:39):
And I read that and I went, God dammit, men were the first people to write jokes. Well, the first time it was recorded, it was a man’s joke.
Mimi Kwa (42:47):
Yes, the victors record history.
Jo Stanley (42:50):
That’s right. Whereas the women’s jokes, I’m sure weren’t necessarily about the fact that a woman farted in her husband’s lap.
Mimi Kwa (42:56):
And they weren’t necessarily fart jokes.
(42:57):
I bet you’ve told fart jokes though. Diana.
(42:59):
Oh, sorry, not doing fart jokes. [inaudible 00:43:04].
Jo Stanley (43:03):
They are funny at times. So that’s the world’s oldest joke. And it led me to wonder why comedy for you? And what was the first time you went, I’m going to tell jokes for a living?
Mimi Kwa (43:18):
Yeah, you could have found joy in the cello.
Diana Nguyen (43:19):
Yes, I could have.
Mimi Kwa (43:20):
Or ballet.
Diana Nguyen (43:21):
Yes.
Jo Stanley (43:21):
Piano.
Diana Nguyen (43:22):
So comedy was a shield from the bullies in primary school. Because growing up, it was very disruptive moving from school to school, because of the domestic violence. Full circle guys. I just felt when I made people laugh, they didn’t have to see me. Yes. So it was a very-
Mimi Kwa (43:40):
A quick look over there at the joke that I made.
Diana Nguyen (43:44):
Yeah, that was probably the first key into that. But in grade six, I remember standing up at show and tell in the classroom Mrs. Gleesy’s class, and I stood up and said, when I grow up, I want to be a musical conductor or a comedian.
Jo Stanley (43:59):
Wow.
Diana Nguyen (43:59):
Yeah.
Jo Stanley (44:00):
And look at you now.
Diana Nguyen (44:01):
I know.
Jo Stanley (44:02):
When are you going to be a conductor?
Diana Nguyen (44:02):
I don’t know.
Jo Stanley (44:05):
I feel you could.
Mimi Kwa (44:06):
You’re a doctor, you’re a comedian, a dancer.
Diana Nguyen (44:09):
Well, when I was on the Camino, so people don’t know this, that you sleep in bunk bedrooms with 50 people.
Mimi Kwa (44:16):
Oh, is that all?
Diana Nguyen (44:16):
Yeah. So there’s a 100 people in a room. At 10:00 PM there’s an orchestra of snoring, and it’s stunning.
Jo Stanley (44:25):
I don’t know if I’d be into that, to be honest.
Diana Nguyen (44:27):
So I’ve been close. That’s one of the closest I’ve been to conducting.
Jo Stanley (44:31):
Wow. And then was there a personal or was there a moment, what was your big break? What was your first actual gig?
Diana Nguyen (44:38):
Our first big gig was Phi and Me. So the web series I co-created. Performed at the Guildford Lane 2011, I produced it. We sold out three and a half weeks. People lined up to watch our show. And we got four stars in Herald Sun, which Herald Sun never really comes out and watch Vietnamese, Asian comedy. And they did. But it was our people laughing.
(45:01):
And I remember this key moment, it’s always stuck with me. There’s one sketch that we don’t translate to the white audience. And you could see our audience interacting with the Vietnamese people in the audience saying, what did they say? What did they say?
Jo Stanley (45:18):
Oh, I love that.
Diana Nguyen (45:18):
And it was just like… Yes.
Jo Stanley (45:18):
Oh, Di, that’s so clever. That’s brilliant.
Diana Nguyen (45:20):
I know. And I get goosebumps, but I was, fuck, yes, we did it.
Jo Stanley (45:24):
Yeah, that’s really clever. And what I love about all of your creativity, there’s always depth to it.
Diana Nguyen (45:29):
Oh, thanks.
Jo Stanley (45:31):
You think so much about it. What is our last question for Diana?
Mimi Kwa (45:33):
Our last question for you, Diana, is what is your BE?
Diana Nguyen (45:41):
What is my BE? I think for my BE is just to be here, and no longer need to survive. Just there is no chaos, there is just peace.
Mimi Kwa (45:51):
Diana Nguyen thank you so much for being here now-
Diana Nguyen (45:55):
Thank you for having me.
Jo Stanley (45:57):
Honestly, Diana. Did you know that she and her sisters are named after princesses? So we have Princess Diana.
Diana Nguyen (46:03):
From the Royal family. Princess Anne and Princess Sarah Fergie.
Mimi Kwa (46:07):
Oh, very fitting. How cute is that.
Diana Nguyen (46:09):
Very refugee.
Jo Stanley (46:12):
Very refugee. So beautiful. We love you.
(46:18):
Thank you for listening. We love you joining us for our A to BE chats.
Mimi Kwa (46:22):
Yes, we do. Please see our show notes for our Acknowledgement of country. And all the people who help us put this podcast together. As well as interesting links to our guests work and other references we’ve mentioned.
Jo Stanley (46:34):
We’re Jo.
Mimi Kwa (46:35):
And Mimi from A to BE. Rate follow and get in touch on our website.
Jo Stanley (46:40):
And let us know who’s A two BE you’d like to find out about.
Mimi Kwa (46:43):
We can’t wait for you to hear our next conversation.